China-Africa relations have strong political roots, says Liu Hongwu, director of the Institute of African Studies at Zhejiang Normal University, in an exclusive interview with Diplomacy Talk.

He highlights the historical mutual support between China and Africa, noting Africa's crucial role in the restoration of the People's Republic of China's lawful seat in the UN and Beijing's consistent support for developing countries in UN votes.

Liu emphasizes that China and Africa share many ideals and development goals. He views the 2024 Summit of the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation in Beijing as a crucial milestone, offering a chance to review decades of partnership and shape future strategies.

Following is the transcript of the interview.

Diplomacy Talk: Professor Liu, the 2024 FOCAC Summit is scheduled to take place in Beijing this September. It will be a valuable opportunity for China and African nations to explore more avenues for cooperation. What are your expectations for the upcoming summit?

Liu Hongwu: China-Africa cooperation benefits 2.8 billion people.

The 2024 FOCAC Summit marks a significant milestone in China-Africa cooperation, as this year is the 25th anniversary of the forum, which was established in 2000. This year's summit will review past achievements, analyze the drivers of success, assess the current roles of China and Africa, and plan for the future.

A Chinese aphorism states, "When poor, cultivate yourself; when prosperous, contribute to the well-being of all."

In the past, China was poor and had few friends in the world. The West was blockading us, and it would have been easy to corner us if we had not had partners. If it had not had "poor buddies," China couldn't have been independent and self-reliant.

Recognizing this, the late Chinese leader Mao Zedong prioritized relations with Asian, African and Latin American countries in China's foreign policy.

Today, China has achieved great progress and gained significant global influence. China's future development relies on its strengthened global interactions, particularly with countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. China needs to facilitate the common development of these countries to secure its own growth over the next 30 years.

As China has become more integrated into the global economy, it needs to have more in-depth interactions with Asian, African and Latin American countries. China needs to accommodate Africa's concerns when pursuing its own development, which aligns with African countries' aspirations.

Diplomacy Talk: What common values or points of convergence do China and Africa share?

Liu Hongwu: In 1974, Mao Zedong introduced the "Three Worlds Theory" as part of China's diplomatic strategy, stating that China and Africa are both Third World countries with common historical experiences, destinies and development goals.

This statement remains relevant today, as China and Africa are still developing countries. Indeed, China and Africa have shared ideals, goals and visions.

During his visit to Africa in 2013, President Xi Jinping emphasized that China and Africa have always been a community with a shared future. He put forward the principles of China's Africa policy — sincerity, real results, amity and good faith. These are China's guiding principles for its relations with Africa.

Certainly, Africa has acted in the same way. It supported China's restoration of its lawful seat in the UN, after which China became a permanent member of the UN Security Council. This was crucial for China. Otherwise, China's subsequent reform and opening-up might not have come so far, as the West would have easily contained China.

Mao once said that fellow developing countries and African nations "carried" the People's Republic of China into the UN. He emphasized that China's vote in the UN should always benefit developing countries and that China should speak up for the developing world. China and African nations, as Third World countries, share a bond often described as that of "good brothers."

This sentiment was echoed by Zambia's first president, Kenneth Kaunda, who, after visiting China, sent a message to Mao, acknowledging Mao's view that China and African nations are Third World countries and good brothers. Kaunda characterized the strengthening of the bilateral relations as an "all-weather" friendship.

Nowadays, China and Africa still share many common values, as exemplified by the China-Africa Dar es Salaam Consensus.

Diplomacy Talk: You just mentioned the Dar es Salaam Consensus. Could you please explain this consensus to us in simple terms? For instance, what are its key points and innovative aspects?

Liu Hongwu: First, as Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi stated, many scholars believe this is the first international consensus proposed by the Global South rather than imposed by the North.

Second, in his talks with Wang in Beijing in May, Tanzania's Foreign Minister January Yusuf Makamba said that the consensus provides a new blueprint for the future of developing countries and the Global South.

Third, Global South nations proposed the consensus as a path to modernization, showcasing their collective wisdom. Wang described it as a strategic modernization plan for the Global South.

Fourth, this consensus aims to achieve development not only for Global South nations but also for all countries, promoting shared progress worldwide.

The consensus is an outcome of knowledge sharing and idea exchange between China and dozens of African countries over the past two decades.

Diplomacy Talk: Nowadays, the "Chinese model" and the "Chinese approach" are frequently discussed. What are the most valuable lessons from these for African countries?

Liu Hongwu: In fact, Africa has its own model and approach. Africa will not blindly follow China's path. However, African countries can learn from China's development over the past four or five decades.

President Xi Jinping wrote the book "Up and Out of Poverty" while working in Fujian. Many African scholars have read and highly rated this book. After reading the book, African Union (AU) Commission Chairperson Moussa Faki Mahamat said that the first lesson African countries learned from China was independence and self-reliance. If Africa could rely on itself and strive for a better future, it could create prosperity across the continent.

Second, countries should maintain long-term political stability. China has maintained stability for 75 years since the founding of the PRC in 1949, focusing on implementing five-year plans and two centenary goals.

In the past, the African political landscape was full of destabilizing factors because the West designed a system for Africa with elections every three or five years, causing turbulence and mutual negation.

Now, African countries have realized that development can be secured, even if slowly, as long as there is no turbulence. Development can be achieved if a country maintains stability for two or more decades. As a result, political stability and security have become shared priorities for African nations.

Third, countries should choose their own development path. Africa can learn from others' experiences and adapt them to its own unique conditions. In doing so, Africa can find a suitable development approach that adapts to its own political environment and economy.

Fourth, Africa has a population of 1.4 billion, 80% of whom are very young. This large and youthful population is its biggest strength. Valuing and enhancing education, teaching youth practical skills, and developing vocational and technical education are essential for Africa's future development.

Diplomacy Talk: How do you view Africa's role on the global stage?

Liu Hongwu: In 2000, The Economist magazine ran a series of articles titled "Hopeless Africa." The first FOCAC was held in Beijing that same year. Western countries taunted the forum as a "beggar's banquet," believing talks with poor African countries were pointless. However, this approach demonstrated China's vision for the continent's development. In a decade, China-Africa cooperation became a critical driving force for Africa's development.

From the 1960s, when many African nations gained independence, to around 2000, the continent's total GDP was not more than $600 billion. However, the period from 2000 to 2010 saw remarkable growth, with Africa's GDP surging from $600 billion to over $2 trillion. This decade of rapid growth, during which six African countries ranked among the world's 10 fastest-growing economies, became known as "Africa's Golden Decade."

Why did Africa's economy boom? According to the World Bank, FOCAC vigorously boosted Africa's economy, with China-Africa trade seeing double-digit growth annually.

In 2010, The Economist changed its tune, featuring "Africa Rising" on its cover. However, that same year, some Western countries instigated the "Arab Spring," hindering the development of African nations and causing turmoil across North Africa.

But generally speaking, Africa has made notable progress over recent years. Over the past decade, China has been involved in building transportation infrastructure in Africa, enhancing the continent's connectivity and promoting the Belt and Road Initiative(BRI). As Africa became more connected, intra-African trade improved and interaction between African countries increased. With the establishment of the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA) and Africa's cooperation with China in enhancing regional connectivity, the share of intra-African trade in total African trade has increased from less than 5% to around 15% and even reached 20% in some instances.

Diplomacy Talk: Some U.S. and Western politicians and media outlets accuse China of setting a "debt trap" and practicing "neo-colonialism" in Africa. How do you view these narratives?

Liu Hongwu: China needs to avoid falling into such narrative traps.

The West has set up two traps in Africa. The first is a political trap. Since the end of the Cold War, Western countries have interfered with African countries' choice of political systems, undermining Africa's national sovereignty, independence and development rights. This is the biggest political trap set for African countries.

In contrast, China advocates non-interference in the internal affairs of African countries, believing that only Africans themselves know which path leads to prosperity. China aims to help Africa escape from the political trap set by the West.

The second is a poverty trap. It's undeniable that African countries have heavy debt, but most of this debt is owed to Western countries. For example, Kenya's foreign debt stood at $70 billion at the end of 2023. However, China's share was only 10%, or $7 billion. Of this, nearly $4 billion was used to construct the Mombasa-Nairobi Railway, one of the most significant projects in Kenya over the past century. The railway cut the travel time from Kenya's capital, Nairobi, to the port city of Mombasa to only five hours, unlocking great development potential for the country.

If the West intervenes in the internal affairs of African countries, provokes conflicts among their tribes, attempts regime changes, and fuels disputes between African opposition and ruling parties, the parties may then make China a scapegoat to regain power.

Diplomacy Talk: Some Chinese citizens doubt decisions by China to cancel loans to African countries, believing that these funds should instead be used to help its own people. What's your take on that?

Liu Hongwu: As a Chinese saying goes, "Like a fence with three supporting stakes, a hero needs the help of three friends." For decades, China has had long-lasting friendships with many countries, and they have helped each other. Over the past 70 years, while China has given financial and project assistance to Africa, African nations have also aided China, particularly in providing political support.

For example, Africa played a key role in the restoration of China's lawful seat in the UN. As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, China holds veto power. Over the past 40 years, the United States and some other Western countries have proposed hundreds of resolutions at the UN to constrain China, including those concerning Xinjiang and Taiwan, but China has rejected all of them. Without the veto power, China would have great difficulty on the global stage. Therefore, China's restoration of its lawful seat in the UN has significantly contributed to its economic success, and Africa's support in this matter was undoubtedly essential.

To conclude, first, China will continue to play its due role as a major country. This aligns with the Chinese belief that "When poor, one should cultivate oneself; when prosperous, one should contribute to the well-being of all." Second, China and Africa have provided mutual assistance. Third, China's assistance will enhance Africa's development and expand its market, which will, in turn, benefit China.

Diplomacy Talk: The China-U.S. relationship is an extremely important bilateral relationship. In your opinion, do you think the U.S. is actively trying to hinder China-Africa cooperation?

Liu Hongwu: The U.S. indeed represents a significant external factor affecting China-Africa relations. Whenever the U.S. announces a plan to re-engage with Africa or increase its input in the continent, it aims to counter and eradicate China's influence in the region.

China has developed targeted plans for establishing cooperation with African nations. In contrast, the U.S. seems more concerned with countering China's influence rather than addressing Africa's real needs. This approach often creates complications for China-Africa relations.

Some used to say that "African countries rely on China for development and the U.S. for security." In fact, this statement is only half right. Many African countries believe that China can help them secure development. However, African countries continue to grapple with terrorism and poor public security. In particular, whenever African countries move closer to China or support it in multilateral arenas, the U.S. will target the ruling parties of those countries. It will instigate social media-driven uprisings or color revolutions, and support opposition parties in attempts to oust those in power.

Even though many African countries want to strengthen economic ties with China, they are concerned about striking a balance between China and the U.S., or even distance themselves from China on major global issues. If they become too close to China, the U.S. may attempt to overthrow their governments, harming their interests. Therefore, it is incorrect to say African countries can "rely on the U.S. for security." In fact, the U.S. brings them insecurity.

Diplomacy Talk: For my final question, based on your many years of research on Africa, are there any particular insights or perspectives you'd like to share with us?

Liu Hongwu: China and Africa have huge potentials for cooperation. China has been connected with the world for thousands of years. In modern times, China was reduced to poverty and weakness but has prospered through unrelenting struggle.

Today, the world is far from tranquil. Asian, African and Latin American countries require development. We should encourage the Chinese youth to embrace a global vision and greater aspirations, and develop Africa and BRI partner countries. They could work with the African people to unlock the continent's potentials. To achieve common development is a major endeavor. Both sides should discuss their future path at the 2024 FOCAC Summit to continue working together toward this goal.

Diplomacy Talk: Professor Liu, thank you for sharing your insights from your years of in-depth research.

Liu Hongwu: Thank you. I hope more people will tune in to Africa in the future.

Presenter: Wang Xiaohui

Producer: Li Xiaohua

Production supervisor: Zhang Liying

Editors: Zhang Ruomeng, Zhang Heling, Jiao Yuan, Lyu Yiyi, Xia Fangting

Produced by chinadiplomacy.org.cn